he has obviously never played

People think that Blizzard's policy of"easy to learn, difficult to master" equates to watered down and weak. These are people who just don't get it, and are in the severe minority from the numbers Blizzard seems to get.

It isn't going down yet, but will, when there is an alternative.

Maybe Warhammer....Who knows....

Sorry, forgot to add article link xD

The game is popular because it has something for everyone.

Many classes, and many objectives to playing.

One could play solo their entire wow career... leveling, questing etc..

One could play with a group of friends their entire career..

One could simply love the economic portion and basically spend a good amount of time enjoying the auction house.

One could spend hours upon hours simply performing PvP...

One could spend hours upon hours raiding, or end game pve content.

If you have 10 minutes to play or 10 hours, you could log on and do something.

Thats the appeal of this game.

The one real issue it faces is the difficulty for a new player.. Especially post WoTLK.

I dont' want to roll an alt, and I an level to 70 fairly easily. 0-80 is a daunting task. We just got a buff to leveling 1-60 I think we need an even greater increase and include 60-70.

Cut leveling time by 1/3rd from 0-70 post wotlk if you want to attract new players and keep existing ones.

There are several classes I'd like to play I just don't have the time to invest to leveling them.

The numbers speak for themselves. I think they have a cash cow that could go for a few more years even without any new expansions.

The author obviously hasn't tried to level a toon lately. Compared to how long it took me to level my main, the new exp gains are crazy. The end game PvP system still needs some refining but I really don't see it as a sinking ship.

Basically his article seems like any one of the many QQ threads you read on the official forums. But, amazingly , all those people that conatantly QQ continue to keep playing.

Unless something else comes out and really offers something that WoW doesn't, they will keep their player base and keep going in their current direction.

I think with expansions continuously coming out, they need to find a way to reinvigorate the old content and keep it relevant in some way. Outlands will be just as deserted as Azeroth when WOTLK drops.

It makes it nice for PvP server leveling, but stinks otherwise.

This Author is complete Joke!!! He talks and Smells like ASSHAT because Blizzard won't make life easier for him in WOW. Might I suggest he migrate to Age of Conan when its released so he can quit bashing WOW =P

You don't have to agree with everything the author said to realize some of what he said has merit. For instance, I didn't like the way the expansion killed old end-of-game content. Having come to WoW late, I was nowhere near 60 when the expansion was released. Could the old end-game content have been kept relevent? I believe so. Here's how I would have handled it (were I King of Blizzard :) ).

A month or so before the release of the expansion, I would have added new levels to the current game (at least to 65, maybe to 70. Then I would have set the minimum for the Outlands at 65, with the first quests for 65 to 70 level toons.
That way, Scholo, BRD, LBRS, UBRS, even Molten Core would not be irrelevent.

BTW, this system could work with the new release, to keep the Outlands relevent.

I find it amusing when a game with 10 million players, which holds 3 of the top 4 spots in sales (which means new players) has people saying that it has something wrong with it, or its dying off.

Of course WoW will die off eventually, but its ridiculous to thing that day is anywhere near. The numbers prove this to be true.

here's a guy with one point of view that doesnt realize there are millions of other people out there who do not think like him. sadness.

I think that was really uncalled for. There are appropriate ways to state you dislike what the author wrote, without going into immature statements like above.

Interesting, but effectively impractical. You are talking either redesigning or updating existing zones to provide for wider level ranges. That really is not nearly as simple as you make it out to be. Scholo, BRD, BRS are not any more irrelevant than any other "old world" dungeon. The things made irrelevant were the raid instances.... but honestly, anyone who actually did them, despite some occasional nostalgia, more often than not would rather avoid them. Outland won't become irrelevant, it just is the next stepping stone after the Old World. It is called progress, something that MMOs tend to have. I've honestly been impressed that Blizzard actually kept the Old World relevant. There are other games where once the expansion hit, there was no reason to ever go to the pre-expansion areas ever again. That isn't the case in WoW.

Xlorep, allow me to clarify.

My suggestion regarding levels was a 20-20 hindsight of what could have been done to keep the later dungeons relevent. It's too late for the Outlands, but not too late for WotLK.

Scholo, Blackrock, and Molten Core are now irrevelent for a couple of reasons. First, you can easily get a toon to 58 (and get to the Outlands) without doing these dungeons; second, the drops in these dungeons are easily surpassed by drops in the Outlands. It's tough to get a pickup group together for them. However, having started a new toon recently, I've had no problem getting groups for Deadmines, Gnomer, etc. That's because they help you level faster. At 58, the Outlands is better than the former end-game dungeons.

Now, even having said that, I still love WoW and still enjoy playing it (you can love something or someone without loving everything about it/her/him). But I am sorry that I my blacksmith missed out on a entire line of equipment/weapons (Dark Iron).

For those of us who's been there from the beginning (and makes up likely 60% of the player-base) who's seen MC, BWL, AQ, etc., the content has been repeatedly beaten to death and the new content is much welcome. Blizzard does the right thing in introducing new content and new lore to keep us interested in the game. For new folks, they may not see MC or can make Dark Iron recipes, but the new leveling improvements make getting to 58 a relatively trivial task--so that you can now see the new and cool content. Games evolve, and old content becomes obsolete. Would Nintendo benefit from retrofitting Super Mario with the same content over and over again? The only cases where they've succeeded was when they introduced new content with some references to old elements (see Mario Galaxy). I doubt anyone would want to run expanded levels from the original Super Mario over and over again just so "new folks" can experience jumping over a turtle on a side-scroller.

In my opinion, seeing the higher-end content with my guild (my friends) is a huge part of the game, and some people turn to high-end PvP or Arena for the same enjoyment. These are social, human elements to the game that benefits from the "watered-down" gameplay elements that the author did not consider (or have experience of, seemingly).

The article is an interesting read, but I think it's moreso of an indication of the author's misconception of why the game is popular rather than insight. Next time before you write an article, consider all angles and do some research. ;)

Explain how BRD, BRS, Dire Maul, Scholo, or Strat are any more or less irrelevant than any other dungeon that exists for levels prior to them. You can easily level up and not do any of those dungeons. That has always been the case. Dungeons have always been optional. None of the old-world dungeons ever helped me level faster, in fact, they tended to be more of a timesink than a help. Especially the longer ones (like Wailing Caverns).

That said, with WotLK, I'd expect to see more people doing runs on the old-world "high end" dungeons, since the higher level people (80's) will be able to clear them prety darned easily, quickly, and safely. Right now... they are possible to clear, but they do take a little effort and it is possible to wipe in them.

Honestly, the Dark Iron stuff wasn't worth it. Like a lot of the old world crafting items... They were typically substandard to world drops at that level. There are some exceptions, but not many. Blizzard reevaluated and changed their position on crafting professions with TBC. I'd expect to see more emphasis on them in WotLK as well, since making the professions have more value has made people enjoy them more it seems. I can remember absolutely hating that my Orc Hunter was a Dragonscale Leatherworker... to the point that I've never made another Leatherworking character since.

"This Author is complete Joke!!! He talks and Smells like ASSHAT because Blizzard won't make life easier for him in WOW."

This type of abuse will not be tolerated. Bye bye Jolly. Find some other site to take your aggressions out on.

@ Jollyriggerman - Calm down, and don't use such a language over trivial things like this. It isn't exactly Blizzard deleting one of the classes here! It is an article by a guy who doesn't really have that much of a clue.

@ article - As people points out, the article IS interesting, and it DOES have a few valid points, but unfortunately, they all more or less become void as per the above statement - he doesn't seem to grasp the situation that well.

I am slowly letting my nostalgia dust settle, and coming to realise MC wasn't the most well refined instance, and all these new mechanics is a lot more challenging on the personal (vs gear) level.

It is also a matter of looking to WHY these things were in the game. It was mainly a way to entertain max leveled characters, and they are not really leveling areas. Some instances are great, some are way too long, and some are just pain.

They are still interesting, as they represent Warcraft Lore, but also a past time (little over 1.5 years in WoW-lore-time compared to WotLK release).

Still, I do agree that they could had modified things so that at least the 5-man instances would have been "required" (or a boon at least) before outland etc.

Anyway, I'm rambling again... :smilie:

Yup yup

I agree with the idea that they could've made the end game instances more important to game advancement, such as completing a long quest chain that involved running a few of them at least once to get a 'key' for the portal, and perhaps limiting the ability to get toons over to outlands by other means (lock, mage, etc.)

at first it would have made the expansion items more unique, and pre-bc end game content more utilized, but as all things that have come in Wow, they would have eventually relaxed those restrictions, just as they are doing now to end game raids, such as dropping the attunement for SSC, BT, and now kara (as well as others)

But like others have said, in the design of BC blizz fixed a lot of things that made the pre-BC end game content far too time consuming for the casual player. compare instances like mech and raids like kara, say to instances like BRD and raids like MC. there is still challenging and enjoyable raid and instance content, they have just made it more fractional, to allow for shorter play times with the same level of involvement and skill. I believe this to be purposeful, as Blizz has always shown that they are a company that listens to and follows the general desires of their customer base. And they have done it in a way that is very effective, given the track record.

On the flip side, i actually enjoy being able to go back and experience the pre-BC end game content with my lvl 70. Being able to solo most of it, and the rest doable with a healer as backup, i can still get the plot advancement, without having to spend all my time trying to organize and work a group, while at the same time trying to rush all the fights so we can get through the instance before everyone falls asleep. And the BC content and the pre-BC end game stuff is linked, yet separable enough that you don’t feel like your ‘missing’ out if you go back and to it later

In relation to the author of the article, it seems he falls into a category of player that really thinks there the ‘core’ of enthusiasts, and they ‘know’ what an MMORPG is about. I have seen many of those kinds of players in my gaming experience. Back in the old pen and paper days of D&D they used to argue at the table about rules and rolls and such, and they still today feel like there the only ones who really KNOW what a good MMORPG is all about. IMHO, let them live with their ultima’s and evercrack’s, and horribly time-consuming and boringly repetitious games. Ill stay with WoW, something that I can actually play and yet fit into my life, which is something that blizz has been very effective at designing

One last comment on the pre-BC dungeons.

Yes, it is true that you do not NEED to do ANY dungeons to level. In that regard, the former end-game dungeons are not any more irrelevent that any other Azerothian dungeon.

BUT, there are different ways to play WoW. Some people twink their alts, yet I personally know some players who would never twink. Some players want a high-level toon to lead their group through a dungeon, yet I and others prefer to instance in a level-appropriate group in order to make it challenging. And for some people, anything except level 70 (soon to be level 80) raids is boring, yet some people want to EXPERIENCE everything and are in no hurry to max out. Hell, some people even role-play in this mmoRPg!

For those of us who don't twink, who want to instance in a level-appropriate group, and who want to experience everything, the implementation of the expansion made the end-game instances irrelevent. We CAN find groups for lower-level dungeons, but have a extremely difficult time finding groups for the former end-game dungeons. Why? Because at level 60, the Outland instances are more rewarding in terms of XP and Loot (but I contend, not more rewarding in terms of the experience). We are also part of the 10 million players.

My bottom line: If the expansions were INTEGRATED into the game instead of just being ADDED onto the end, newer players and newcomers would be able to experience all WoW has to offer. As it stands now, some places are beyond our reach.

As an aside, an online friend whispered me just last Sunday about getting invited to a Molten Core group. We've talked about it before, so he asked if I could be included. The response? No, only level 70s were being invited, and my Holy Paladin was only a 68 -- and for a level 60 raid dungeon.

That is one of the best parts of WoW. It allows for different playstyles.

See, here I question what you mean again. Because, when I get to the level-appropriate range, I have no problem finding groups to go into those instances, any more than any other Azeroth instances. What is difficult is getting anyone to run through those instances with a higher-level character, but at the correct level range? Nope, no problem. In my personal experience, the former "high end" non-raid instances were made just as relevant and used as any other non "highest level" 5-man dungeon. Which is to say, people who are pushing to get to the max level, will still push to get to max level and ignore the 5-mans. People who want to do them, can. And I've not seen any difference between getting a PuG for any old-world pre-TBC instance. With the notable exception that there is a ton more people at the lower end of the spectrum (and the higher end of the spectrum) than in the middle. So Deadmines, Ragefire Chasm, etc... would have more groups going because there are more people available. But comparing SM to BRS? It is pretty comparable on how difficult or easy it is to get a group. Unless you are looking for some high level to run you through it.

The only place I can think of, would be the raid instances, which are neglected. But that's because they, quite honestly, were not good, and required too much time and effort. People who ran MC don't exactly want to go back to that typically.

That one is ironic. But, MC honestly is terrible. And I'll agree, you won't find people wandering into there. There isn't much excitement in it, there just is tediousness and a long series of mobs to go through.