Being Alliance in BG's Nowadays...

[Skahr]

Has anyone else noticed Alliance Wins 90% of AV's and loses 90% of WSG/AB matches? I am not even kidding when i say this, EVERY TIME I get into an AB match...I head to cap LM, and 14 other alliance alllllllllllll sit at the stables the WHOLE TIME. (unless its a pre-made organized bg grp) WTF??!!:undecided:

-Skahr

[Jerkey]

Yeah, I understand your frustration, however, once in a while you'll find that magical group that just clicks, and then all your past losses will make this victory that much sweeter.

[Herald of Doom]

True. I've had it happen that rank 10 and higher players enter a wsg, try for 3 minutes then when the Horde premade caps the first flag they all go sit in a corner waiting for the Horde to win. So I asked one of them the very obvious "why?" question:

"rofl its a premade"
"Yes, and? I've won vs premades before, don't just give up!"
"its easier to let them win, now go away rp noob"

...

So I singlehandedly tried delaying the Horde, which got me lots of /pat and /cheer and one HK :s

HoD

[Morollan]

I did my first AB on Tuesday night and we won. We had a leader who people actually listened to and people, including myself, who were happy to sit at a node and defend it.

Last night I did a few more AB's and lost all of them because the idiots (usually high-ranked idiots at that) were intent on doing lemming rushes against the horde-controlled stables, being wiped out piecemeal and coming back for more.

I sat at the gold mine all game and defended it. It was the only node in our possession 90% of the time.

[RealFiction]

In order to win AB you gotta have a good group which I find a couple times a night if I play for like 6 hrs. besides that all you gotta do is control three BS, LM and ST imho. Then protect.... When they zerg a base (overload pretty much the whole team on one base) you do an organized rotation to one of their bases and assault right back.... they come back to defend, another rotation to get ur old base back. Sit and hold theirs for as long as possible cause ur gonna get pwned, spawn at ur base again and u still have 3 to their 2.... and thats a W everytime. (if everyone listens that is)

[swaldman]

In order to win AB you gotta have a good group which I find a couple times a night if I play for like 6 hrs. besides that all you gotta do is control three BS, LM and ST imho. Then protect.... When they zerg a base (overload pretty much the whole team on one base) you do an organized rotation to one of their bases and assault right back.... they come back to defend, another rotation to get ur old base back. Sit and hold theirs for as long as possible cause ur gonna get pwned, spawn at ur base again and u still have 3 to their 2.... and thats a W everytime. (if everyone listens that is)

Blacksmith is nice, because it speeds up your travel... but on my battlegroup the horde seem obsessed with it. So in most of my successful games recently we've ignored the BS, and just held the stables, mill & mine (and once, amusingly, the farm...!).

IMHO the mill is a little nicer than the mine because once you have it it provides a rather good viewpoint to see as far as the mine, the 'smith and the stables. Gives advance warning of some attacks :-)

[Morollan]

By the way, the reason Alliance wins AV is that the tactics for AV happen to coincide with the uncontrollable desire to zerg everything that Alliance seems to have.

[brandondash]

True. I've had it happen that rank 10 and higher players enter a wsg, try for 3 minutes then when the Horde premade caps the first flag they all go sit in a corner waiting for the Horde to win. So I asked one of them the very obvious "why?" question:

"rofl its a premade"
"Yes, and? I've won vs premades before, don't just give up!"
"its easier to let them win, now go away rp noob"

...

So I singlehandedly tried delaying the Horde, which got me lots of /pat and /cheer and one HK :s

HoD
The problem there is that you have a fundamentally different base reason for being in the BG in the first place. From a grinding perspective, it makes no sense at all to delay the loss. You get more rep faster by losing fast than by losing slow. Obviously the guys on your team were not interested in the BG at all, but instead were just grinding rep.

[brandondash]

In my battle group, horde is absolutely obsessed with the stables. They will send 12 guys to the stables and lose every other node in the process. Somehow this equates to a good strategy in their minds. It drives me nuts.

[RedSnipe]

grouped pvp = winner

[Morollan]

In my battle group, horde is absolutely obsessed with the stables. They will send 12 guys to the stables and lose every other node in the process. Somehow this equates to a good strategy in their minds. It drives me nuts. If they did that in my battlegroup I'd be happy as Larry!

[RealFiction]

Hmm I want a good group to PvP with... unfortunately my guild likes to raid and do pretty much nothing else. Too bad I never see anyone from here that says they're from US- Kael Thas'

[mckie]

Alliance can't seem to win in AB in my group either. We have no such thing as a strategy. At best we'll cap a node or two. I think I've won one or two AB games, lifetime, in the 20-29 levels.

I used to think it was me, and that I was bringing down the team with my poor equipment and skills. Now I have better equipment and skills, and we still get mowed down. Example: yesterday, come the end of the battle I was at the top of the standings list, with more kills and fewer deaths than anyone on the field, including horde, plus two flag caps... and we lost 2000 to 400. In WSG, we still lose more than we win, but at least we win maybe 1/3 instead of 1/20.

One thing I've started doing: when a game ends I check the standings to see who the top people are. If they're on my server, I whisper them after the game and ask if I can add them to my friends list for future BGs. Then if I'm in a BG mood, I check to see if any of them are on. Having a known quality person or two in a WSG can really go a long way.

[JMadisonIV]

In my battle group, horde is absolutely obsessed with the stables. They will send 12 guys to the stables and lose every other node in the process. Somehow this equates to a good strategy in their minds. It drives me nuts.

I get that in some matches too.

they Zerg the Stables and then camp outside Trollbane Hall all day.

worst part is, half the Alliance on my teams can't seem to figure out that you can run to another Node and rez.

[Mirinda]

At WSG you can hop down the bluff next to the Alliance gy and rez there too.

[alysenne]

Honestly, I don't know how Alliance on my cluster can stand queuing up WSG anymore. Like the original post says, it is a 90% Horde win rate...many of the time, it's a 3-0 shutout. Loss, loss, loss, loss...if I was Alliance, I don't think I could stand it.

[mckie]

I'm seriously thinking of rolling a Horde... I like my NE rogue and my priest, but am so tired of losing all the time.

[Lord Feyrbrand]

Well i did a AB match last night it was close we were only 200 resources lower we had it neck to neck untill 3 high lvls started tryin to rush didn't work it was funny though because the only resource we had left was farm

[Bigairbrucey]

Its so simple to me ...
Horde = Mature player
Alliance = Kid

+ now its hard to form a group that works together because of Xrealm Bgs

[Mackrealtime]

Its so simple to me ...
Horde = Mature player
Alliance = Kid

+ now its hard to form a group that works together because of Xrealm Bgs

Eneough of that ****
"alliance are little kids blah blah blah"
stfu and roll alliance and see for yourself

[Bigairbrucey]

Eneough of that ****
"alliance are little kids blah blah blah"
stfu and roll alliance and see for yourself





I have lots of experience on Alliance I have a rank 11 Warrior

The truth is.... Alliance is full of 14 Year old ADD snot nosed punks. They refuse to hold a node in AB ....they constantly jump around acting like idiots
They will chase a rogue like a dog chases a rabbit leaving the node undefended.

dicipline is what the alliance lacks ...I know that im right

[Krald]

Honestly, the horde sucks too. I play on my warrior in wsg and AB, and while we may win occasionally most of the time the team is completely full of idiots that zerg midfield and completely forget about flags (in wsg and AB). Sometimes we by sheer fluke win anyway.. but it's not because horde are good, it's not because they're more "skilled", it's just.. the alliance suck even more!.

So in conclusion, if you want to win, play in an organised premade, ANY pick up group horde or alliance is going to get battered a lot.

Also, when playing pick up group as alliance vs pick up group horde, all it takes is say.. three people who know what they're doing to completely turn around some wsg matches at least (AB actually requires concrete teamwork all the time pretty much). I know when I played priest in pick up wsg as alliance, I'd lose like.. 80% of the time, but when my druid friend was in the same battleground we'd win like 90% of the time because we simply had two people who knew of objectives.

[Cerlong]

Ya, in wsg, as SOON as the horde gets a cap the people are say "Im not going to waste my time here, the horde is obviously going to win" This is SOOOOOOOOO annoying, and then when I tell them to leave theyre like "I dont want to be a deserter" {I want to hekp my next team to lose}

[lula]

in my server i horde wins 99% of AB-WSG
i didint play AV yet, but the alliance really sucks at AB , the one i player by far most of the time
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8055/02tk6.jpg
the image says all

[xxlebox]

you can always keep on whining that when you play alliance you always lose and when you then go for horde you too always lose. it's just bull****

[Krald]

you can always keep on whining that when you play alliance you always lose and when you then go for horde you too always lose. it's just bull****

It's just fact that to go pick up group is to suck :p. It's very rare you have any semblance of strategy.

Ya, in wsg, as SOON as the horde gets a cap the people are say "Im not going to waste my time here, the horde is obviously going to win" This is SOOOOOOOOO annoying, and then when I tell them to leave theyre like "I dont want to be a deserter" {I want to hekp my next team to lose}

You know the funny thing? we often start winning when they leave. It's like, you lose the dead weight.

[Bryant]

Alliance is not full of a bunch of little kids. I know plenty of older players in a friends end-game guild on my server (US - Medivh).

I don't think we've won an AB yet on my server in the 20-29 bracket, but I quit playing it because I was too low a level to really help out. I just wanted a taste of AB because I havn't played it yet. =]

[Seldom]

I'll echo the statement that alliance isn't full of kids. I would bet that statistically, the percentage of younger player on alliance is about the same as horde. It's just that alliance populations are much higher than horde.

You can see the statistics working in the AV vs AB/WSG groups. AV requires 40 players so statistically, alliance will be more balanced to horde in terms of maturity. In AB/WSG, the small sample can easily skew the age groups.

[MsPancakes]

it's more like

Horde = HKs sitting in their sweatshops on vent
Alliance = more to life than wow BGs.

I don't care if I win or lose in BGs I'm after the rep and honor and the quicker I'm out the quicker I get back into another.

[mesonm]

I'll echo the statement that alliance isn't full of kids. I would bet that statistically, the percentage of younger player on alliance is about the same as horde. It's just that alliance populations are much higher than horde.

You can see the statistics working in the AV vs AB/WSG groups. AV requires 40 players so statistically, alliance will be more balanced to horde in terms of maturity. In AB/WSG, the small sample can easily skew the age groups.

Honestly, I've read this a few times, and cannot follow your logic, and wonder what you conclude....

1. Alliance is not full of kids...ok...got that one...
2. The factions have a similar ratio of young to old...Got that one also
3. Alli population is higher than horde...okay (this means that there are merely greater numbers, but you already said the ratios are the same...okay...)
4. Statistics are working on AV and AB/WSG...huh? Are you trying to imply that something you've said suggests that Alli or Horde have more mature players in BG? If so, how did you form that conclusion?
4. In AB/WSG, the small sample can skew the age groups...Got that also...ON BOTH FACTIONS, since you said they have the same ratios.....

So, please elaborate...(maybe I missed a prior post that connected the dots?)

[Ebgreen]

The theory is that the smaller the sample size (i.e. WSG = 10 players vs. AV = 40) the more likely that the sample does not represent the population.

I don't happen to agree that this would falsely make it seem like there are more immature alliance players because for the numbers involved, the difference in sample size between 10 and 40 would be trivial imo. Or at best, you would be just as likely to draw an immature Horde team as an immature Alliance team (assuming the immaturity ratio is the same for both) and that just doesn't fit with my experience.

I realize that the experience of one person does not indicate a clear statistical relationship ("The plural of annecdote is not data), but it sems like my experience is more common than not. Or maybe only people that like the Horde more post on message boards ("Correlation is not causality).

[Radriegal]

The thing I've really noticed in WG is the disparity in levels between Horde and Alliance teams. WoW does a poor job of matching up the two sides evenly -- almost to the extent that it appears to be on purpose.

While waiting for the gates to open and the game to begin it's natural to "inspect" your teammates and see what you're working with. Without fail, half the team is below lvl 27.

While running around on the battlefield, however, you're hard-pressed to find anyone on the Horde side that isn't lvl 28 or 29.

It really is lambs to the slaughter, because even an organized group of mid-20 characters doesn't stand a chance against a bunch of lvl 28 and 29 characters.

It's really not worth playing due to the aggravation factor.

AB seems to be a little more even on my server (Echo Isles) in terms of player levels, and I will admit that the advantage that Hordies enjoy there is due primarily to arganization. You rarely find any Horde players "straggling" around by themselves. They always attack in packs, while the Alliance fools are running around like headless chickens, dying and dying again.

[eggo]

It's simple, alliance chars don't listen. Also most new players to WoW roll alliance, so that's another factor.

[perfectbody]

it took a wile to read these threads through and as i have only characters on one account (runetotem EU) and have only ever played in WSG and AB my oppinion is just that OPPINION......

i have no idea what servers you all are playing on but on my server the aliance win 95% not 90% its 95% of the wsg that i see, with my aliance twink guild however this is 100% we never lose when there are ten of us in our pre made group.

AB on the other hand is simple.... me and my guildmates made lvl 23-25 characters in order to get rid of the theory that it takes lvl 28+ to win AB, with all players lvl 23-25 we won having 4/5 of the bases constantly and although we lost dramatically on hks and Kbs this does not matter all you need to do is take the nodes and hit anyone trying to assault it, get people to stay at bases and have your best 3/4 people in a group keeping the horde at bay at there 1/5 they controll so they never atack you.

wsg is soo easy on my server and it is highly twink populated, i have got to say the twink guild i am in is exceptional and has never lost but all it takes is a group of mages to frost nova and AOE and were all dead so get tactics correct depending on what you have and stick to them (i have found that horde actually go for the objective of getting the flag more than alliance and i have no idea why as the whole point is to get the flags--- when you enter wsg juat /s all go for the enemy flag, and generally it means that you win without the hassle you tend to get with a pug. eg finding enemy flag or nobody going for flag and enemy flag carrier running in the middle whilst all are trying to camp GY unsucessfully.)

and as to people making aliance characters as newcommers to the game they lvl up pretty fast and do not intend to stay at 19-29 etc so they will soon be out of your hair if not tell them to make a twink or lvl up lol politeness always works !!!!!

[Kodiax]

Whether you're Horde or Alliance, the large majority of WSG/AB losses come from some unlucky combination of (1) players who don't listen and (2) too many low level (ie. useless) toons on your side. Plus, every few games, you run your PUG into a pre-made, which is pretty consistently bad news.

Assuming the probability for these events is split evenly between the Horde and Alliance on any given battlefield, it would seem likely the winner is often determined by effective leadership (Pre-mades aside).

[perfectbody]

i would agree with your (1) and (2) but i think that your missing a (3) this being the fact that Twinks are the single biggest factor in wsg these days, the team with the most twinks wins (not always but if there all as good as each other and there is no priest twink to run fear and use speed pots then this is true) in AB this does not occur as much as twinks can only kill fast and last longer they do not have brains as i have found lol, this in mind a twink can be killed and once this is done they generally have no leadership going on to direct them once there "node" has been taken so they run round geting hks losing points and thus lose.

[Richakin]

so how do you explain the 60 bracket, when they aren't "twinks" or "level disparity"

i know on my priest grinding AB rep is worse than the 1-60 grind...I win abotu 1 in 20 AB's. Ive lost 2 AVs out of enough to get me 1/2 Revered. WSG is worse, but take my priest, guild mage and 2 guild druids and we never lose. But its rare that all of us are on at the same time.

[Lazt]

i agree! its annoying!

i lose about 70% of my wsg bg when its just me, but when I join with my bro (we are both twinked exact same) and our priest friend, we win 90% of our matchs. Not saying its 100% us, but thats just how it seems :)

[Weebull]

While waiting for the gates to open and the game to begin it's natural to "inspect" your teammates and see what you're working with. Without fail, half the team is below lvl 27.

While running around on the battlefield, however, you're hard-pressed to find anyone on the Horde side that isn't lvl 28 or 29.

Same thing can be said about the alliance side. It all depends on what server(s) you guys are playing on.

[Senturo]

hehe i have seen a premade group where all players was rank14 :)
Horde just wait for our win :P

[Imraath]

I hadn't played much in the battlegrounds on the toon i'm leveling at the moment. He's L48 at the moment and I thought i'd do a quick run through AB.

I couldn't believe it... We won. I can't remember the last AB match that i've been in where the Alliance pulled off a win. It wasn't close either... We spent all of the match with at least three nodes capped and some of it with four.

[Saenayil]

I know this is more of a post about wins versus losses.. but I was wondering why the issue of Queue times wasn't brought up. I'm on laughing skull, and have been playing since release (before leeroy) but now I'm in a situation where Queue times for WSG and AB are around 30 minutes and AV is 50 to an hour 30... What's worse is that I heard that the Horde only wait 1 minute tops to get into WSG/AB.

I know this is caused by a skewed alliance/horde ratio in our battle group--are there any battle groups where alliance gets in quickly? I'm definitely considering a transfer if a quicker queue time exists.

[Baal]

Aye - I'm horde and it took me 5 minutes at the longest (when the server just came up) to get on. usually it's a matter of 10-20 seconds.

[perfectbody]

the lvl 50-59 group is the fastest on my x-relm aliance wait <1-5 mins for both Ab and wsg

[Moonface]

Here's what I don't understand: I am playing alliance in the 40-49 bracket right now. It seems to me that the majority of the players (I'd say roughly 65-70% (very rough estimate)) seem to be just as clueless about strategy as the players in in the lower level brackets. At this point in the game, when players have comitted so much time to the game, why 1) do they even bother with bgs and 2) why can they not figure out how to play?
I understand that many players just camp for the rep, but in my experience even those players that seem to want to win are horribly clueless.

I agree that in WSG all it takes are about three people who know what to do to win. But BGs are very simple. There's not that much strategy that goes into it. Is it that the alliance players just don't care about winning as much? That (not older/more mature) but more competitive players choose the horde?

And finally, is there a way that this problem can ever be solved? Can blizzard do something to eliminate those that just farm rep?

It gets frustrating to play BGs, especially becuase I do enjoy them a lot. I try and lead the team but most of the time no one else responds let alone react to my directions.

I know I just covered a lot of ground here, but I am getting pretty frustrated...especially since after a couple minutes of playing the horde now realizes that I know how to play so they all kill me off immedietly and let the rest of the alliance run around for a bit before killing them.

[Metatron]

Alliance don't actually suck as much as everyone thinks. They have good players, they are equally skilled to the horde players and they can kill just efficiently as any horde can. The thing I feel that lets the Alliance down the most is just the attitude. 9/10 when I enter the bg the first thing I will hear is 'we're gonna lose / horde have imba racials / alliance suck.' Not true. Alliance don't lose because of these reasons. Alliance lose because of three things that they lack.

1. Communication.
2. Cooperation.
3. The attitude of 'We will win'

On my horde toon when we enter a bg the attitude is always - we will win. Not so much so in AV and therein could lay the reason horde lose so often, but I like to feel AV is tailored more to the Alliances uncontrollable urge to zerg everything in sight and let's them play more to theior playstyle.

A good of example of how good the Alliance actually are is when me and girlfriend play and she brings along her mage to WSG. It is very, very rare we lose when we play together. She will enter the flag room from the upper level and be shielded as she enters. Then Frost Nova everything into place, grab the flag, be re-shielded and I will use Pyschic Scream to counter anyone else who was not captured by the Frost Nova. Then it is simply to chase after her with Shields and constant renews, as she blinks and frost novas herself across the bg with me pyschic screaming whenever my cooldown lets me. 9/10 the horde will go for her while leaving me completely alone to heal and shield her at my own leisure. Really is that simple and to be perfectly honest I can say we win 9/10 WSG when we play together.

A simple bit of teamplay and cooperation and the attitude that we will win when we enter and we do.

Now AB is a different story. That reqires the cooperation of more than just 2 people. On the rare occasions Alliance listen to tactics and go for BS or LM at the start before the GM (GM has useless overview of the BG - BS & LM give a far superior overview to what is happening and with a quick glance over the BG, you can immeadiately determine where people need to be - GM offers none of this yet Alliance love to cap it from the start - BS & LM first, GM when thet are secure and defended - but then again defence is a gamestyle seldom practiced by the alliance) we may very will win. But all too often we capture 4 nodes from the start and then for some reason still unknown to me, I see half of the alliance heading towards the farm as the horde laugh, hand us the farm on a plate then proceed to cap BS, LM and GM before considering taking the farm back.

Also watch the map when you play as an Alliance. For me this is the best part of being an Alliance in AB and offers endless amusement for me. So we need to cap LM back? Good! 6 people attacking. But why are you all going in single file in a line that stretches all the way back to the stables? Haha! Hilarious! It really is! Sure 6 people could cap it. But 6 people one at a time? The horde must be having a field day as the Alliance approach one by one. Attack as a group if you want any chance! So. AB. Out of 30+ games the other night we won 3. Every single time we won was when LM or BS was captured and held from the start and when people actually defended. Very simple tactics. Oh yes. And the people I played with in these bg's had the attitude 'We can win this!' Made a huge difference to the way everyone played.

Well there's my 2 cents.

Posted this on the official boards with my 39 doorf priest. Seems relavent to this topic =)

[Leonavice]

Agrees with Metatron on everything except 1 point.

The Alliance does have "We will win" attitude. There's more.

It's "We will win BUT someone else will do it for us."

[Ryste]

here's a few things most alliance don't understand regarding AB.

1) you don't need more than 1 tapper at stable at the beginning of the fight.
2) you MUST win 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 equal number fights.
3) whoever is the last person at a node guards the node.
4) you see a teammate coming to a node, you start riding to the next node so your team mate will stay and you have a head start to the next node.

5) there are no rules someone must guard the node, it's up to everyone, sometimes leaving a node unguarded and go all out offense is the best move.
6) ALWAYS ATTACK. Often alliance are happy with 3 nodes, often hordes will continue to assault with 3 nodes.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Here's what I don't understand: I am playing alliance in the 40-49 bracket right now. It seems to me that the majority of the players (I'd say roughly 65-70% (very rough estimate)) seem to be just as clueless about strategy as the players in in the lower level brackets. At this point in the game, when players have comitted so much time to the game, why 1) do they even bother with bgs and 2) why can they not figure out how to play?


I think this is largely due to twinking. People don't enjoy going into 10-19 and 20-29 lvl brackets and either being raped by the opposing team, ridiculed by their own team (for not being a twink) or both.

Because of twinks 30-39 and 40-49 have become the training grounds for WSG and AB.

[kevagron]

Had a 2000-0 AB win the other day, wish I'd taken a screeny. Also the sides started off pretty balanced n numbers, I think Alliance had 12 to horde's 15 at start but they soon got to 15.

I capped stables before they scored a point off it (as all the alliance rushed off somewhere), then we zerged stables and ended up defending it all game. I don't think more than about 2 alliance even bothered to try and go around stables, the alliance kept zerging and dieing.

On the differences, excluding AV (this is my experience, yours may be different). Percentages are my "feel" for what I see, not absolutes.

1. I have toons on 3 servers ranging from 19-60, with a mix of levels and horde/alli. Alliance just suck on every server (pre-xrealm, i don't play some pf these any more).
2. The only time I see alliance win is sometimes pre-mades, twink groups in lower levels and the occasional good PUG (not more than 1 in 20 for PUGs)
3. Alliance tend to go in BG's at much lower levels, I quit a WSG in disgust the other day when I found I was level 36 and I was the highest level on the alliance side by 4 levels - yes, the other 9 alliance players were level 30-32. Its uncommon (I won't say rare) to see a horde char below *4 entering a BG, and these are usually priests.
4. Horde usually have more healers, especially UD priests. Horde priests are much more likely to heal, 75% of alliance priests I see are permanently stuck in shadowform. Horde ratio is about 33% shadowform for WSG, AB a bit more.
5. Horde communicate better, lots of info on where flag is hidden, which way our flag is going, rogue spotted in tunnel etc.
6. Shamans "usually" heal, paladins seem to forget they can do that (apologies to the odd good paladin, if you are reading this and dispute it you are probably the 1 in 100 that does heal)
7. Horde stick together and don't run off on their own, it amazes me the amount of alliance that jump off GY onto 3 horde when they could wait 15 seconds and make it 3 vs 3.
8. Zerg works in WSG, it doesn't in AB because you need to take 3 +bases and hold them to win. Sorry to say, alliance in my experience have this backwards - they zerg AB and try to solo/small group WSG :smiley:
9. Alliance win a little more before 6pm and after 11pm (weekdays), I assume this is because between 6-11pm the good alliance players are raiding with their mains. Outside of these times they do slightly better with their twinks, and it is possible to twink at 49 as much as 19, it just makes a little less difference.

Final comment: I gave up doing BG's with my alliance characters even though I would get respectable HK scores, losing 90% of the time just sucked. I only BG with horde toons now and winning 90%+ is fun :grin:

[Justinledwards]

I think there is high turnover of players on alliance side. I started a couple of weeks ago in AV, now will probably give it away for a while (got my Harpy Hide Quiver). Also with AV if Alliance doesn't get 20 O in the initial momentum it's easy for Horde to hold em back

But while I was playing, threw myself into it (hunter) max dps, mana black hole, suicide stands - too many people seem to care about getting killed. I see it as a quick mana regen - especially on D (last night was on a death per HK 'cos the Horde O got to recognise me and i would get tanked ASAP :-)

But the point about the priest is right. Dam priest in shadow form standing next to me watching me getting slaughtered. After that happened three times I asked for buffs and heals cos I figured they weren't busy and got told off... (you know who you are)

Best AV ever was a pally and a priest standing outside a gy giving blessing of wisdom and stam buff every time - they even started waving :-)

I've seen some awesome horde tactics - the one with 2 tanks in T2+ with two healers each - completely unstoppable.

And some totally abysmal lack of tactics on alliance - especially on channel where they go oh we're going to lose - that just sux. And I can be standing on O outside dek'thar and there are 5 of us catching some sleep or a dance and after 5 minutes I say... need more O (don't have channel access) and all of a sudden a msg will pop up saying need more O... leadership and tactics guys!

If you are Alliance and can lead a BG make sure you communicate! And remember new players are likely to follow your example - so make it a good one :-)

[Leonavice]

here's a few things most alliance don't understand regarding AB.

1) you don't need more than 1 tapper at stable at the beginning of the fight.
2) you MUST win 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 equal number fights.
3) whoever is the last person at a node guards the node.
4) you see a teammate coming to a node, you start riding to the next node so your team mate will stay and you have a head start to the next node.

5) there are no rules someone must guard the node, it's up to everyone, sometimes leaving a node unguarded and go all out offense is the best move.
6) ALWAYS ATTACK. Often alliance are happy with 3 nodes, often hordes will continue to assault with 3 nodes.

1. Alliance loves to have 5-6 people crowding at the stables from the start
2. Doesn't apply to the Alliance because they think winning 1v10 is possible.
3. No, that last person from the Alliance will attack the farm, unless he is already at the farm, in which case he will start fishing.
4. No to 2 counts. You start riding to the next node before anyone comes to reinforce you. Even if they do, they will ride PAST that node to wherever you are riding anyway.
5) Sometimes? I thought the Alliance just love all out offense with no spawn points guarded at all.
6) You got that right. Alliance love to attack whether they have 0 nodes or 5 nodes. See point 2.

:laugh:

[Metatron]

Well here's how I noticed the horde also differ to the alliance as I now start to level another lock. In the 30-39 bracket at the moment (no happycoil yet!) and I'm quite good it. Warlock is a just a class I really understand and can pvp and can't say too much now cause we are supposedly all fotm and imba and skilless but whatever. I like locks and I play well with them. I quickly got myself to the top of the scoreboard in ab on both kb's, & flag defences and flag caps. Then I noticed that when I was getting zerged by alliance, heals would be popping in my way. I never asked to be healed. I let the priests play as they want cause I know how damn frustrating it is to be a pure and utter healbot. But the horde priests, upon seeing someone who was holding his own in the bg. started sending the heals my way and let me keep on holding my. Think that ab game ended with something like 24kb's and 2 deaths at the end thanks to the priests who took it upon themselves to keep me alive.

[Kokolums]

deleted post

[Your Average WoW Player]

Here's my two cents about Alliance BG records:

/agree with most said:
90% AV wins, 10% other wins.

The reason behind AV is that AV requires PvE to win, not just PvP. Alliance is geared for PvE, classes, and racials are all more of a PvE focus for the Alliance. To take down Drek'thar, is just like taking down any boss in any instance. You need a couple of tanks and a couple healers and a crap load of DPS. Alliance is much better suited for PvE. In AB and WSG, it's pure PvP and stratagy. Horde is designed around PvP; look at their racials, Warstomp? You're carrying the flag, you're a tauren, you drop a war stomp and that gives you two seconds to flee. Will of the Foresaken? That's nice in tight PvP encounters. Cannibalize allows for quick healing if there are no healers about. Alliance doesn't have that.

Now I will give you that Horde also has a larger population of better players, who listen and are organized. Alliance doesn't have that either.

However, I have found that with alliance, if you can get an organized group togather, then chances are you're better then the average Horde PUG. Why? For starters you're using LFG or your guild. People that are obviously going to listen, as they listen in raids (guild) and they listened to LFG (LFG organized groups).

Just my 2 cents

[holycheese]

I read all 6 pages and am in utter disagreement I only play in horde pug grps and everything you have said applies to horde grps as well.

I have been threatened to be reported to gm's for shouting in bgs as all the horde pugs go to st in numbers and dont cap anything on the way or defend anything they have capped.... DOH!!!
its not a racial thing its a kids gamers mentality kill kill kill and that relates to horde and alliance...


cheese..

[Echosnare]

I had a pally buff me with the melee AP buff then run away giggling in WSG.

Meh - AV I haven't lost one since I hit exalted which is annoying, WSG and AB seem to rely on more focused tactics and aren't as linear as AV - had good sides and bad sides.

With the new patch I've had a whale of a time even though I seem to lose all my mana in about 20s

[Leonavice]

AV is easier for the Alliance rather than the Horde partly because of the map itself.

Look at the map and count the chokepoints. For the Horde, the only choke point is at Iceblood GY/Iceblood Tower. Break that and the Horde has basically nothing to defend with. Entrance into Frostwind village is more forgiving, since East and West towers cannot shoot you before you cross the wooden log walls.

For the Alliance, the whole stretch of road from Stonehearth GY to Stormpike GY is a chokepoint. Yes you can go down the slope at Icewing Bunker but eventually you have to come up to the spot where 2 hills flank a narrow path to SP GY. Not to mention the stupid bridge leading into Dun Baldur with that lvl 60 elite standing there and North and South bunker shooting your butt.

The standard and easiest way for Alliance to win is to shoot straight for Snowfall GY, allowing Horde to go for Stonehearth. Put up some token resistance at Stonehearth, while the Snowfall team go after Iceblood GY. The idea here is to cap Snowfall, let Stonehearth GY be halfcap by Horde, then cap Iceblood GY. Doing so will deny the Horde spawning point besides the initial battleground entry and FW. Once Alliance have Iceblood GY, the game is basically won unless they do something extremely stupid (which does occur some 50% of the time).

[Findariel]

Alliance lose because of three things that they lack.

1. Communication.
2. Cooperation.
3. The attitude of 'We will win'
I don't know about #3 but 1 and 2 .. certainly!

It's strange to see teammates run to the other side ALONE so often, or not defend nodes in Arathi. Yesterday Alliance actually one for once, I was really surprised :)

But cooperation is indeed extremely lacking. I play 31-39 atm and group numbers or tactics don't mean a thing to most people. What's the use of groups if anyone runs away in all possible directions anyway? I play a paladin but if the group leader for example says "group X (my group) defends the mines", I'm usually the only one to stand there, together with some others from another group.

Not sure if standing at a node on your own is a good idea. Horde seems to be better organized one way or other, I hardly see them coming alone, at least in groups of 2-4. And well, if I'm standing there on my own ..

So well, what to do about it? Have a briefing before the battle starts to talk through tactics first? Or change your "group" composition (left part of screen) according to who's in (healing) range?

[Eido]

Ok I have read most of this thread - and skimmed some of the duller bits.

Firstly, the 'low-level useless toon' mentality.

1. everyone who pays their WoW subscription has the right to go into the BGs as soon as they are eligible. So can all the self-appointed BG police please stop telling people that they should leave because they are too low level. If they were too low they wouldn't get in.

2. low-level toon are not useless. I have seen many upper-bracket players run past a fight without helping a team member only for the friendly combatant to die at the hand of his enemy. I have also seen some very valiant efforts from lower-bracket toons. I would rather have a level 10 plinking away at an opponent I am fighting than no help at all from a 19.

3. how are upcoming player supposed to get BG experience with the BG police on thier backs all the time. BG PvP is a skill that needs to be practised and perfected. I have seen many 18-19s who are utterly useless - not knowing the lay of the land or the routes to the enemy roof, etc.

Secondly, how are the Battleground commanders appointed (it comes up as 'commander' or somesuch in chat)? I am thinking it is based on the ability to whinge and whine.

On a number of occasions I have endured the drivel these pillars of martial wisdom. Their 'orders' usually consist of whining when the other side win, berating his own troops for being too low level, and then leaving when his mum tells him it's time for dinner. Only rarely do I see any real intel on enemy movements or sitreps.

Lastly, and I appreciate the emotional factors, but twinks are not invincible - just harder to combat. So many times have I seen the chat full of whine about how so-and-so is a twink and that the whole BG is a lost cause - RUBBISH! I have been on teams facing Alli twinks. Yes it is a pain but if you hunt in pairs and have a bit of savvie, you can bring twinks down. I know and have been in WSG teams that have beaten Alli twink teams (granted not all twinks) 3-1 or better. Anyone can level a main to 60 and then subsidise a twink, but if they are a crap player, they are still a crap player - just with a lot more blue gear.

So, lets all be a bit less self-rightous, a bit more communicative and a bit more strategic, then perhaps the BG experience will be more fun and fulfilling for all.

Merry Xmas - FOR THE HORDE!!!

[Leonavice]

I got into an AV today where we cleared everything to Drek and all his warmasters but unable to kill him. Why? Cos 30 of 40 alliance players are farming the horde tunnel entrance non-stop....